Episode 12: Early Greek, Hittite and the Trojan War

The first Greek and Hittite civilizations emerge from Indo-European tribes in the eastern Mediterranean. The Greeks adopt an early form of writing and fight the Trojans. An alphabet allows the ancient history of the Greeks to be recorded in the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Map Prepared by Louis Henwood (Click Map for Larger Image)

Map Prepared by Louis Henwood (Click Map for Larger Image)

18 thoughts on “Episode 12: Early Greek, Hittite and the Trojan War

  1. I recently discovered the podcast and it’s fabulous. I was a European history major back in college (a long time ago) and this is how to do history. Wonderful stuff, and I’ve subscribed on Patreon to support the podcast.

    I have a question about this episode. The Myceneans spoke an ancestor of classical Greek, wrote linear B, and fought the war with Troy we all know about. The civilization collapsed, overrun by invaders. Three hundred years went by without a writing system, until the alphabet was borrowed and the Greeks wrote down their legends.

    But why were these people speaking Greek and writing down Mycenean legends? Weren’t these people the descendants of the overruners, not the Myceneans? Wouldn’t they have had their own language and legends?

    Thanks for the podcast. I’m going to hate it when I catch up to you and have to wait for new episodes.

    • Hi Lawrence,

      It is generally believed that the Mycenaean civilization was disrupted, but not displaced. The invaders apparently overran Greece, and destroyed much of the existing civilization. Some probably settled among the native population, but the language of classical Greece was definitely descended from the earlier Mycenaean language. That implies that a significant number of Greek-speakers remained in place during and after the disruptions caused by the ‘Sea Peoples.’

  2. Hi Kevin,

    My wife recently pointed out your podcast and I love it. I noticed you called the event covered here (and in the next episode) the “Invasion of the Sea Peoples.” I’m curious if you’ve also come across it as “The Bronze Age Collapse?”

    The invasion (there also seems to be some evidence of displaced local communities also rising up in rebellion) was certainly a part of this, but there also seems to have been collapses in trade networks and the ability to enforce customs/duties/taxes in outlying areas.

    I think your focus on the invasion works better for the points you want to highlight as part of this narrative, so please don’t take this as a criticism, I was just curious if you had run across the broader arguments in your research.

    Again, thank you for the podcast, it has really been great.

    • Thanks! I’m glad you’re enjoying the podcast. Yes, this period is also known as the Bronze Age Collapse. It seems that various historians have slightly different takes on these events. I chose to emphasize the role of the sea peoples because it tied in with the overall narrative.

  3. Hi Kevin,

    Thanks for the great listening your efforts provide. I have not finished this episode but am pausing at the ninth minute because for the second time I’ve heard the expression ‘reduced to writing’. You used it at the end of the last episode to say the Greeks had “reduced their language to writing”. Why ‘reduced’? What reduces when a language is written down? I believe it, but I don’t know why.

    • Hi Sean. It’s just a figure of speech. It means that something spoken has been written down. Maybe it’s more common in the US. Also, it is often used in the law to refer to an oral agreement that has been put in writing. Being an attorney, I may have picked up the phrase through legal usage.

  4. I stumbled across your podcast yesterday. Joy!

    I am bowled over by your mastery of the material and your seemingly effortless ability to communicate this mountain of knowledge in a lucid and engaging manner.

    You obviously weren’t hiding behind the door when the grey matter was being handed out.

    Thank you so much.

  5. While I agree that alphabets are easier to work with than syllabaries and logographic scripts, I doubt highly that people were unable to learn it. It’s more likely that they were restricted from learning it, as early writing was probably more of a practice for the elites or religious leadership. This is a common practice even in the Middle Ages, as I’m sure you’re aware. Opening it up to the larger society is more likely a cultural shift, or both easier access to tools, a new system of writing, and a shift to wider education.

    There are still a few syllabaries and syllabic alphabets still being used on national level (Japanese, Korean walks a line, etc). The one major disadvantage that syllabaries have is that they don’t transfer to other languages easily, although cuneiform was adapted strangely well, which is its own story.

    Anyway, this is still great stuff, cheers.

  6. I love your podcasts. My BA is in Early German Languages. But I have a great interest in the history of languages. Your presentation is outstanding, so well organized I can almost see your outline, and so informative. Thank you. I just recently started listening to the series and am familiar with about half the titles in your bibliography, but have only read about 10 of them. I might suggest for historical background Eiic H. Cline 1177: the year Civilization Collapsed, though I’m sure you know about it. Thank you again for the podcasts.

    • Thanks! I am familiar with that book, but I didn’t discover it until I had already prepared these early episodes. My “Resources” page included books and other resources that I used for the first 50 or so episodes. It doesn’t include as many of my later resources, but I literally use hundreds of books for research, so I am not sure how helpful it would be to list all of them.

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